Kayla

Another reason why we needed to implement incoming blacklist filters on our servers was because of AOL. But we hated to tell those of you about this that didn't like the filters, because at the time of discussion there was enough confusion. Plus you hated that we had good reasons.

Here's the deal-

We get AOL feedback loops for our IP addresses, a.k.a emails copied to us that are reported as spam from AOL users. Now, these emails we get are supposed to be copies of spam from OUR servers. But here is what happens:

Many of our customers forward some of their email accounts with us to their AOL email accounts. So this means when they receive spam and click the AOL "This is spam!" button, it looks like to AOL that the spam came from us, since we are a middle man in delivery.

When we had the filters in place on the servers, I hardly got any feedback loop alerts. Any that I received were real spam issues due to outdated scripts and other issues on customer websites. Fixed in a flash and easily, too. I didn't have to weed through false alerts due to our customers' mail forwards (and not just our customers, customers of resellers, basically anyone with an account on a Surpass server). I would say 98% of the feedback emails we get are due to this problem. I get 1 email every 2-3 minutes, really. And none of them are of any use to us.

This is a definite flaw in the AOL spam reporting system. I was on and off the phone today with AOL and they basically couldn't do anything for us during the 4 times I was disconnected and the 6 people I talked to. It is very frustrating. If they keep removing the IPs that get placed on their blacklist, they just get placed back again by their systems. They said all we can do is implement filters or not allow forwards.

So let me phrase that again... and add the other option we have already been telling our customers:

To resolve the problem with AOL blacklisting:
a) Either we can place the blacklist filtering on our servers
b) Not allow our customers to have email forwarding accounts
c) or just tell everyone to use their ISP's outgoing mailserver to send email to AOL customers if they are faced with a bounce

I would say that about 30 of our servers right now are blacklisted by AOL and the issue because of the forwarding is the only reason. This is why many hosting companies do implement certain spam filters on their incoming mail, it wasn't just us that was tempted to do so. I am faced with a pretty big dilemma here with this spam issue regarding AOL at least. It's not easy.

These emails that come in to our servers would be completely avoided if we did use the filters, as I said before. I wasn't receiving anything before, and these are the reasons:

Contains an URL listed in the SBL blocklist
[URIs: lqwegqg.com]

3.2 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist
[URIs: chromite8oilcloth.com]

1.2 RCVD_IN_BL_SPAMCOP_NET RBL: Received via a relay in bl.spamcop.net
[Blocked - see <http://www.spamcop.net/bl.shtml?64.12.138.1>]

1.0 URIBL_SBL Contains an URL listed in the SBL blocklist
[URIs: qqeenn.com]

3.2 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist
[URIs: lewdhj.com]

1.0 URIBL_SBL Contains an URL listed in the SBL blocklist
[URIs: lfsrtsve.com]

4.3 URIBL_SC_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the SC SURBL blocklist
[URIs: jmlfehdhkf.info]

3.2 URIBL_OB_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the OB SURBL blocklist
[URIs: ekbeehjkda.info elkmlifebd.info]

1.5 URIBL_WS_SURBL Contains an URL listed in the WS SURBL blocklist
[URIs: hydrocodine.net]

I could go on and on. Each email that could have been blocked from our server and blocked from being forwarded.. and then reported against us for no reason.

I am not saying that we are going to put the filters back. I just want to explain the situation. We try our best, but this certain issue is just very hard to control and make everyone happy at the same time.

H

I haven't ever used AOL mail, nor sent an email to an AOL user, so I haven't experienced the problems, but I do think I can offer an opinion.

I really have no idea what you're capable of doing in terms of filtering or blocking forwards, but maybe you could have a block of forwarding mails to the AOL domain. Or if not, maybe have a warning regarding reporting the mail as spam.

It seems many users were not informed that by reporting the forwarded mail as spam, it was reporting the Surpass server as the spammer. It makes sense though, the server sends it, so it's IP is now reported as the sender.

Perhaps this can be avoided by purely informing the users of this? It might help them fight the spam before it enters their AOL account?

Another possibility would be to filter the email which would be forwarded. I'm not sure if that would be possible, but it would certainly reduce the severity of the problem.

Then again, I wouldn't be affected, so I'm not really considering how those that would be opinion on it. The best thing would be to consult those who are causing the problem and inform them of it, and maybe go from there to plan a solution.

Kayla

There's nothing available in cPanel to not allow forwarding accounts made for AOL addresses.

We could send out a message about this, but I am not sure if this would help that much, I did think about that idea.

Well the moment the email comes to our server it goes to their AOL account. There's nothing really we can do on that end either. We could block -any- mail on our servers from going to AOL, but that would effect manually sent mail to AOL, and that's not an option.

H

[at][at][at][at]... You killed all my ideas. :P

Guess informing the users is the best solution that I can think of...

Where are all the creative minds? You know, the ones that aren't stuck reading history textbooks and can think of ideas on the spot that save people like me. Wouldn't mind hearing what Bodypainter and BigJohn have to say about it.

wap3

Sad to say but AOL only cares about AOL, pretty well documented in tech-news sites.

If you haven't heard Verizon, since Dec 22, has been blocking all of Europe.

At our office, cbcog98.org, I block nearly all the foreign countries as we do not have business with them.
Myself, if I ever get a real vacation and travel, I'll be one drunk puppy from all the drinks I'm owed worldwide.

If surpass can block all those 15-40 *'s that SA tags at the gateway it would not bother me one bit. But since SA got fixed a few months back where I can kill them off it really does not matter.

If you can kill the "bigs ones" you have may vote [and a clear policy in the signup]

--Trey Pattillo

Bigjohn

Could you not add a script to Exim to forbid forwarding to AOL?

DewKnight

personally, i say Surpass starts the assault on AOL corporate offices, to finally bring down AOL


since that won't ever happen, and personally, i don't care about a few missed emails.. i would say throw back ont he filtering we had

since some people make money when people send them emails, and don't receive some... i would say...... there has to be some way somewhere that possibly forwarding to aol emails could be forbid... if there isn't// somebody somewhere has to be able to code it.....

since i am not really educated at all in all of this, i am going to leave now

may

Hi everyone,
I've set forwarding for some of our mail email accounts to my aol for number of reasons one of them is filtered pager alert. Maybe surpass could offer an alert feature with header to pager or another account instead of total e-mail forwarding(or well probably it does and I just don't know how to set it up).
I will cancel the forwarding if it would help. I am recieving e-mail from surpass at least it seems so :-) and my surpass ip's arent blocked by aol . That's probably because I never ever labeled my forwarded mail as spam on Aol.
I think it would be good to email all users of surpass about this AOL/Surpass issue maybe they could transfer forwards to gmail, yahoo or some other accounts or find different method for their issue.
Regards, M

Bigjohn

This brings the "hierarchy" of the mail processes into consideration.
For example, if a user could enable SA, and then set the forwarding rule to only forward messages that were not flagged / tagged as potential spam.

Another is that the user must NEVER report forwarded email to AOL as spam - as TEQ indicated, this causes more trouble than it's worth, because AOL was not the intended original destination address.

TEQ -
What is the message flow for these messages?

I know that they come in via Exim. But does forwarded email ever pass out of Exim and into SpamAssassin?

John