Ajax - Page 4

**Kickersny.com** · November 29th, 2005, 6:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

SOMETHIN G
(word: SOMETHIN) is misspelled
(word: G) is fine

haha, G is fine. Atleast I got one right.

Word, G!

Majd-GFX · December 2nd, 2005, 5:38 PM

i've been workin with ajax quite a bit

i bought both the DHTML Utopia book and the Ajax in Action book. I'd recommend ajax in action, very comprehensive.

There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of what ajax is and what it's used for.

here's an example of a website i made that uses ajax

http://66.195.240.220/~majdkgf/cip/

I have been obsessing over details like if you type in "second" (without the quotes) it shows you results on the fly, then if you click off, it hides them, but if you click on again, it shows them up again. I'm still trying to figure out a way for it to "autocomplete" so if you write sec, and the first result is second, it would add in "ond" for you and have it highlighted. Haven't gotten quite there yet.

I'm also gonna make the calendar ajax based so whenever you change the date, it doesn't need to refresh the page. (for calendar events set archive date to november 2005).

WeBScud · December 3rd, 2005, 1:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_fern

I'm still waiting for Yahoo to add me to their beta testing for the new e-mail system, which works with AJAX.

It's funny I saw an article the other day on Yahoo about how AJAX is giving Microsoft a run for it's money (even though they had a hand in its start) since web-based programs using ajax offer alternatives to using office programs, since files would be stored online and easy to have your data accessible everywhere. It even mentions XAML, the next-generation alternative to AJAX.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/cmp/20051025/tc_cmp/172303361

I have a couple ajax projects in mind for the reprogramming of my site. I really need to get back to working on that code.

The new Hotmail that's in closed internal beta is suppose to be in AJAX.

http://ideas.live.com/

Microsoft has also been talking about versions of Office that can be accessed and used on the web -- I'm assuming that will be in AJAX too.

bobdeveaux · December 8th, 2005, 8:02 AM

I been using AJAX for a while for the Internal Helpdesk system that i am developing at work. Unfortunatly i cannot release the URL!

However, i can show you some of the stuff ive used it for when messing around at home:

http://www.bobdeveaux.com/pipeline/bdnt/

Beware tho, its on the vocal server and thats down at the time of posting.

Also: http://www.bobdeveaux.com/pipeline/fajax

The second link is using AJAX to allow flash to talk to the standard HTML web control. Kinda neat

bobdeveaux · December 8th, 2005, 8:07 AM

To be honest, the main use i have found for AJAX, although not demonstrated on my personal links, is the capability of populating Select boxes.

Imagine 2 tables in a database, Categories and Sub categories.

Now imagine you want to select a SubCategory on your website. You can populate the Categories list via AJAX and have an onChange event to populate the Sub categories list using AJAX. I've used some neat functions whilst doing that.

Thats where i have found a great use anyway.

Ill try and post some personal links demonstrating what i have mentioned when i get time.

H · December 8th, 2005, 2:18 PM

Thanks mate, the Flash thing is pretty crazy! Unfortunately it's the combination of poor accessibility that would prevent me from using it (Flash and AJAX are commonly known to be inaccessible).

bobdeveaux · December 9th, 2005, 5:21 AM

Hell, im talking to you on msn atm, but for the sake of everyone else, we can have this conversation in here...

So, what do you mean by the accessibility issue?

I can only assume at first that you are reffering to the javascript issue? If not then there its possibly something i am unaware of.

Cheers,

H · December 9th, 2005, 5:53 AM

Well, accessibility is refered to as the ability to allow people of all abilities or disabilities to use your site. There are limitations to how far you can go, but nonetheless, being blind shouldn't stop you from surfing the web. There's also accessibility in terms of what happens if the user-agent doesn't support the technology (Flash or JavaScript), or how usable is the site.

Flash, for instance, is horrible for anyone that uses a screen reader. It's certainly improving, but fact of the matter, it hinders a lot of sites unusable. It also has disadvantages like not being able to direct link to a page. People can rave about a Flash blog or forum, but really, they're pretty critical for incoming links to particular sections of the site and can't be used. Flash also doesn't use the back button.... I could go on.

AJAX is something I haven't done much testing in terms of accessibility for screenreaders, but it breaks a lot of the functions that we're used to, and typically for misuse. I like to think AJAX isn't really meant to prevent refreshing between the about page and contact page, it's really more for serving useful purposes like submitting a form, updating a form, etc... It's when people misuse AJAX or JavaScript that it becomes a problem.

If you're interested in accessibility, you can check you W3's accessibility standards: http://www.w3.org/WAI/

I know we love to learn how to do navigation with JavaScript, but in all reality, it shouldn't be used unless you're in desperate need for it or you've found a way around the accessibility problems.

bobdeveaux · December 9th, 2005, 6:00 AM

Good point about the flash!

One thing i will agree with though, is your point about the AJAX usage. AJAX should really only be used when needed, and there is no need to make a full blown web app all using AJAX. http://www.bobdeveaux.com/pipeline/bdnt is a perfect example of what you mean, no doubt why you said it lol.

bdnt was mainly for experimentation, to showt that it can be done. I would agree that the main use is to prevent pointless actions, such as postback events on forms.

I'm not sure of a clear cut example where i would ever use flash and AJAX, espcially as i rarely use flash anyway. I have seen a lot of websites raving that AJAX is the new 'flash'. I'm not too sure on my own opinion about that.

One thing is for sure though, with lots of experimenting, AJAX really can be useful, just so long as you dont get overuse. Take bdnt for example, its using the Smarty template engine. But im using AJAX to call the smarty template, so effectivley its a full html page being fetched back, which wont decrease loading times at all. The only thing it will do is mess around with built in navigation options in your browser!

So, i suppose i get your point, and agree. lol.

So tips guys and gals: If you're gunna use AJAX, use it carefully, dont fetch a whole website back with it

December 2nd, 2005, 5:38 PM	#29 (permalink)
Majd-GFX Registered User Seasoned Poster Joined in Sep 2004 58 posts Gave thanks: 0 Thanked 0 times	i've been workin with ajax quite a bit i bought both the DHTML Utopia book and the Ajax in Action book. I'd recommend ajax in action, very comprehensive. There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding of what ajax is and what it's used for. here's an example of a website i made that uses ajax http://66.195.240.220/~majdkgf/cip/ I have been obsessing over details like if you type in "second" (without the quotes) it shows you results on the fly, then if you click off, it hides them, but if you click on again, it shows them up again. I'm still trying to figure out a way for it to "autocomplete" so if you write sec, and the first result is second, it would add in "ond" for you and have it highlighted. Haven't gotten quite there yet. I'm also gonna make the calendar ajax based so whenever you change the date, it doesn't need to refresh the page. (for calendar events set archive date to november 2005). __________________

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December 8th, 2005, 8:02 AM	#31 (permalink)
bobdeveaux Registered User Fresh Surpasser Joined in Oct 2004 22 posts Gave thanks: 0 Thanked 0 times	I been using AJAX for a while for the Internal Helpdesk system that i am developing at work. Unfortunatly i cannot release the URL! However, i can show you some of the stuff ive used it for when messing around at home: http://www.bobdeveaux.com/pipeline/bdnt/ Beware tho, its on the vocal server and thats down at the time of posting. Also: http://www.bobdeveaux.com/pipeline/fajax The second link is using AJAX to allow flash to talk to the standard HTML web control. Kinda neat

December 8th, 2005, 8:07 AM	#32 (permalink)
bobdeveaux Registered User Fresh Surpasser Joined in Oct 2004 22 posts Gave thanks: 0 Thanked 0 times	To be honest, the main use i have found for AJAX, although not demonstrated on my personal links, is the capability of populating Select boxes. Imagine 2 tables in a database, Categories and Sub categories. Now imagine you want to select a SubCategory on your website. You can populate the Categories list via AJAX and have an onChange event to populate the Sub categories list using AJAX. I've used some neat functions whilst doing that. Thats where i have found a great use anyway. Ill try and post some personal links demonstrating what i have mentioned when i get time.

December 8th, 2005, 2:18 PM	#33 (permalink)
H after g, before i Resident. Joined in Jul 2004 Lives in N,BC,CA 8,084 posts Gave thanks: 48 Thanked 131 times	Thanks mate, the Flash thing is pretty crazy! Unfortunately it's the combination of poor accessibility that would prevent me from using it (Flash and AJAX are commonly known to be inaccessible).

December 9th, 2005, 5:21 AM	#34 (permalink)
bobdeveaux Registered User Fresh Surpasser Joined in Oct 2004 22 posts Gave thanks: 0 Thanked 0 times	Hell, im talking to you on msn atm, but for the sake of everyone else, we can have this conversation in here... So, what do you mean by the accessibility issue? I can only assume at first that you are reffering to the javascript issue? If not then there its possibly something i am unaware of. Cheers,

December 9th, 2005, 5:53 AM	#35 (permalink)
H after g, before i Resident. Joined in Jul 2004 Lives in N,BC,CA 8,084 posts Gave thanks: 48 Thanked 131 times	Well, accessibility is refered to as the ability to allow people of all abilities or disabilities to use your site. There are limitations to how far you can go, but nonetheless, being blind shouldn't stop you from surfing the web. There's also accessibility in terms of what happens if the user-agent doesn't support the technology (Flash or JavaScript), or how usable is the site. Flash, for instance, is horrible for anyone that uses a screen reader. It's certainly improving, but fact of the matter, it hinders a lot of sites unusable. It also has disadvantages like not being able to direct link to a page. People can rave about a Flash blog or forum, but really, they're pretty critical for incoming links to particular sections of the site and can't be used. Flash also doesn't use the back button.... I could go on. AJAX is something I haven't done much testing in terms of accessibility for screenreaders, but it breaks a lot of the functions that we're used to, and typically for misuse. I like to think AJAX isn't really meant to prevent refreshing between the about page and contact page, it's really more for serving useful purposes like submitting a form, updating a form, etc... It's when people misuse AJAX or JavaScript that it becomes a problem. If you're interested in accessibility, you can check you W3's accessibility standards: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ I know we love to learn how to do navigation with JavaScript, but in all reality, it shouldn't be used unless you're in desperate need for it or you've found a way around the accessibility problems.

December 9th, 2005, 6:00 AM	#36 (permalink)
bobdeveaux Registered User Fresh Surpasser Joined in Oct 2004 22 posts Gave thanks: 0 Thanked 0 times	Good point about the flash! One thing i will agree with though, is your point about the AJAX usage. AJAX should really only be used when needed, and there is no need to make a full blown web app all using AJAX. http://www.bobdeveaux.com/pipeline/bdnt is a perfect example of what you mean, no doubt why you said it lol. bdnt was mainly for experimentation, to showt that it can be done. I would agree that the main use is to prevent pointless actions, such as postback events on forms. I'm not sure of a clear cut example where i would ever use flash and AJAX, espcially as i rarely use flash anyway. I have seen a lot of websites raving that AJAX is the new 'flash'. I'm not too sure on my own opinion about that. One thing is for sure though, with lots of experimenting, AJAX really can be useful, just so long as you dont get overuse. Take bdnt for example, its using the Smarty template engine. But im using AJAX to call the smarty template, so effectivley its a full html page being fetched back, which wont decrease loading times at all. The only thing it will do is mess around with built in navigation options in your browser! So, i suppose i get your point, and agree. lol. So tips guys and gals: If you're gunna use AJAX, use it carefully, dont fetch a whole website back with it

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