AOL Rejecting Your Email? Please read.

**Kayla** · March 3rd, 2005, 1:45 AM

AOL Forwarding Decision

Jan 2005 : The Beginning of the Discussions
AOL Blacklisting Woes, need your opinion please.

2004 - 2005 : Previous Events Leading to Discussion
AOL stillblocking Surpass servers.
Blacklisted
Undeliverable email problem -- is there a fix??
Emails to AOL are bouncing
Surpass servers still blocked from AOL e-mail clients
AOL rejecting my e-mails to clients

---------------------------------------------------------------------

If you ever get a bounced email when you email an AOL customer, or have any question about emailing AOL, please email this address:

aolsurpasshosting.com

We will reply in most cases within only a few hours.
Please include your domain name and/or server IP address.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The announcement below was made before the decision:

AOL Rejecting Your Email?

The following error was received by one of our customers after they sent an email to an AOL user.

SMTP error from remote mailer after initial connection:
host mailin-01.mx.aol.com [205.188.155.89]: 554- (RTR:SC) http://postmaster.info.aol.com/errors/554rtrsc.html
554- AOL does not accept e-mail transactions from IP addresses which
554- generate complaints or transmit unsolicited bulk e-mail.

This is the interesting part:
AOL does not accept e-mail transactions from IP addresses which
generate complaints.

"Generate complaints" is certainly a broad term, and it explains our situation.

The ongoing issue with AOL blocking our IPs comes to no rest. We understand why they do it, but it's extremely harsh.

I want to remind anyone who forwards their email with us to their AOL account, that if you continue to report spam to AOL that you are blocking your own server from AOL. You may never realize that since you forward your email to AOL and never actually send out mail from our server. But other customers do realize this, since they are sending basic emails from their account with us to an AOL customer. This is where the problem is.

If you forward your domain's email to AOL, spam may be mixed in with your real email. That spam is not from our server that your domain is on, but another server elsewhere. Our server is a middle man in delivery to your AOL account where you are centralizing multiple email accounts.

When you report a message as spam, AOL's reporting system sees our server in the headers because our server (Point B) got your mail from Point A (originating spam server) to Point C (your AOL inbox).

When you report that message as spam, you are adding our IP (that your website is on) to a list that will eventually add up and cause that IP to be blocked from AOL.

When you try to email an AOL user from your domain, the email will bounce.

Other customers on the server (that don't have AOL accounts, or just don't forward their email there) who email AOL users will see their email bounces as well.

Not only does the forwarding affect yourself in the long run, it affects everyone else.

We hope that everyone can realize what is happening, spread the word, and understand why some IPs are blocked time and time again from AOL and why AOL has no advice to us to help the issue.

One of the higher AOL admins stated,

"As I understand it, our current policy is:
An MTA that connects to us is responsible for what they send us,
regardless if it was forwarded through them or originated with them."

The only real answer is: Implement incoming filters on our servers to block most spam sources from our server completely so spam never arrives. 100% of our customers cannot agree to mandatory spam filtering (mainly for server performance, partly for AOL), so we cannot implement that.

There is another answer, which is if AOL could have actual people check each piece of email reported as spam and to track the origins. This is too complex to orchestrate.

**Kayla** · March 8th, 2005, 5:29 AM

This announcement below was made when we came to a decision:

We have found there actually is a way to prevent users on each server from forwarding mail to AOL servers. This will knock out the false spam reporting. However, it is going to interrupt the mail habits of a percentage of our users, but this is really getting out of control.

We have hundreds upon hundreds of emails forwarded to us that are of no use. Only a few in between are actually real spam reports from non-customers.

In these reports we can clearly see which Surpass customers are reporting spam from other networks that flow into our servers, which in turn puts strikes against our servers. Each strike gets a Surpass IP address closer to being temporarily or sometimes permanently blocked by AOL. Unfortunately most customers have ignored our emails and continue to forward their email, which continually puts blocks on our servers. Some of them must not have a need to email AOL users from their personal domain account, but other customers on the servers do. And we have a lot of complaints.

Our number #1 abuse department request is "I can't send email to AOL" and now this will slowly diminish. With the multitude of complaints against our servers due to our customer's forwarding, it was not going to be possible if that continued.

**Kayla** · April 27th, 2005, 12:25 AM

AOL News

http://spamkings.oreilly.com/archive...nds_on_sp.html

The highlights:

"Ok, I have to say this. It's NOT stupid to blacklist AOL. It should have been done years ago. The only reason they haven't been subject to this is because they were the world's largest ISP which is no reason to give them special treatments.

They have consistantly been the source of spam, spam issues, and let me tell you. They won't think twice about blacklisting someone just simply because one of their users said an email is spam. Disregard the fact that it was a mailing list that they DID sign up for but didn't feel the need to remove themselves from the list.

AOL needs to learn, and fast, that they can't keep pushing smaller ISPs and businesses around just because they WERE the largest ISP in the world. Even when one is the largest that doesn't make it right."

Then another commenter replied to that poster,

"Again, AOL, Earthlink, Microsoft, etc, are *bankrolling* several VERY EXPENSIVE lawsuits against spammers. Listing them in MAPS or any other RBL list is just plain stupid. Everyone should be teaming up to fight the spammers, not taking little potshots (which is what listing AOL in an RBL really is) here and there."

Then, the gem of the evening:

"I work at the abuse desk of an ISP, and I will tell you that AOL constantly spams our abuse address with complaints(half of which aren't for our network) to the tune of about 300 emails a day on average. Nevermind that they don't reply to any responses and a great deal of them are from AOL users that forward mail to themselves and then report themselves as spammers.

I've also heard rumors that AOL sells email lists, but can't confirm. I wouldn't be surprised either way on this. I do know that they try to act like they are big into anti-spam when in reality they don't seem to be all that interested in actually running a decent abuse department."

**Kayla** · March 24th, 2006, 7:09 PM

One Year Later...

I am happy to report that everyone has been very cooperative with the policy.
Our AOL blacklisting issues have dropped dramatically and we have been able to focus on "real" blacklisting issues and improve response in our abuse/security division.

Thank you to everyone for your insights during this process and most importantly for your support and understanding.

kdanieli · January 9th, 2007, 9:02 AM

The summary of what the current policy toward AOL is should be at the top of this thread. Then you can transition to the backstory. The most important thing people need to know is "what are the rules now" with a brief "why." After that the long history is interesting support for the current rules. Don't start at the beginning, start at the end.

**Kayla** · January 9th, 2007, 10:30 AM

Thanks for your input.

**Sentinel** · January 9th, 2007, 11:27 AM

That's why I tell everyone I know to just delete spam. Don't forward it, don't bounce it, just dump it.

I think that's the best way to deal with spam. Am I wrong? I mean it seems as though the AOL is problem is being caused by people sending spam that appears as though it originates from AOL to the abuse department at AOL. This accomplishes nothing and creates the above problem. If I am understanding it correctly. If these users would just delete the spam and move on the problem would not occur. Am I right?

**Kayla** · January 9th, 2007, 1:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentinel

Don't forward it, don't bounce it, just dump it.

Best advice you can give, at least where AOL is concerned.

jjd · March 14th, 2007, 6:45 PM

wtf??

OK, I just had an email bounce from aol, and tried to email the above mentioned email, aol

surpasshosting.com AND IT BOUNCED:

Quote:

aol

surpasshosting.com
SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<aol

surpasshosting.com>:
host mail.surpasshosting.com [72.9.243.194]: 550-"The recipient cannot be verified. Please check all recipients of this 550 message to verify they are valid."

Guess I'll have to go open a ticket to find out if this is a permanent block or temporary, but if that email addy has been deleted, um, maybe it should be deleted from the top of this stickied thread?

March 3rd, 2005, 1:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
Kayla Surpass Staff Joined in May 2003 Lives in Orlando 23,929 posts Gave thanks: 904 Thanked 769 times	AOL Rejecting Your Email? Please read. AOL Forwarding Decision Jan 2005 : The Beginning of the Discussions AOL Blacklisting Woes, need your opinion please. 2004 - 2005 : Previous Events Leading to Discussion AOL stillblocking Surpass servers. Blacklisted Undeliverable email problem -- is there a fix?? Emails to AOL are bouncing Surpass servers still blocked from AOL e-mail clients AOL rejecting my e-mails to clients --------------------------------------------------------------------- If you ever get a bounced email when you email an AOL customer, or have any question about emailing AOL, please email this address: aolsurpasshosting.com We will reply in most cases within only a few hours. Please include your domain name and/or server IP address. --------------------------------------------------------------------- The announcement below was made before the decision: AOL Rejecting Your Email? The following error was received by one of our customers after they sent an email to an AOL user. SMTP error from remote mailer after initial connection: host mailin-01.mx.aol.com [205.188.155.89]: 554- (RTR:SC) http://postmaster.info.aol.com/errors/554rtrsc.html 554- AOL does not accept e-mail transactions from IP addresses which 554- generate complaints or transmit unsolicited bulk e-mail. This is the interesting part: AOL does not accept e-mail transactions from IP addresses which generate complaints. "Generate complaints" is certainly a broad term, and it explains our situation. The ongoing issue with AOL blocking our IPs comes to no rest. We understand why they do it, but it's extremely harsh. I want to remind anyone who forwards their email with us to their AOL account, that if you continue to report spam to AOL that you are blocking your own server from AOL. You may never realize that since you forward your email to AOL and never actually send out mail from our server. But other customers do realize this, since they are sending basic emails from their account with us to an AOL customer. This is where the problem is. If you forward your domain's email to AOL, spam may be mixed in with your real email. That spam is not from our server that your domain is on, but another server elsewhere. Our server is a middle man in delivery to your AOL account where you are centralizing multiple email accounts. When you report a message as spam, AOL's reporting system sees our server in the headers because our server (Point B) got your mail from Point A (originating spam server) to Point C (your AOL inbox). When you report that message as spam, you are adding our IP (that your website is on) to a list that will eventually add up and cause that IP to be blocked from AOL. When you try to email an AOL user from your domain, the email will bounce. Other customers on the server (that don't have AOL accounts, or just don't forward their email there) who email AOL users will see their email bounces as well. Not only does the forwarding affect yourself in the long run, it affects everyone else. We hope that everyone can realize what is happening, spread the word, and understand why some IPs are blocked time and time again from AOL and why AOL has no advice to us to help the issue. One of the higher AOL admins stated, "As I understand it, our current policy is: An MTA that connects to us is responsible for what they send us, regardless if it was forwarded through them or originated with them." The only real answer is: Implement incoming filters on our servers to block most spam sources from our server completely so spam never arrives. 100% of our customers cannot agree to mandatory spam filtering (mainly for server performance, partly for AOL), so we cannot implement that. There is another answer, which is if AOL could have actual people check each piece of email reported as spam and to track the origins. This is too complex to orchestrate.

April 27th, 2005, 12:25 AM	#3 (permalink)
Kayla Surpass Staff Joined in May 2003 Lives in Orlando 23,929 posts Gave thanks: 904 Thanked 769 times	AOL News http://spamkings.oreilly.com/archive...nds_on_sp.html The highlights: "Ok, I have to say this. It's NOT stupid to blacklist AOL. It should have been done years ago. The only reason they haven't been subject to this is because they were the world's largest ISP which is no reason to give them special treatments. They have consistantly been the source of spam, spam issues, and let me tell you. They won't think twice about blacklisting someone just simply because one of their users said an email is spam. Disregard the fact that it was a mailing list that they DID sign up for but didn't feel the need to remove themselves from the list. AOL needs to learn, and fast, that they can't keep pushing smaller ISPs and businesses around just because they WERE the largest ISP in the world. Even when one is the largest that doesn't make it right." Then another commenter replied to that poster, "Again, AOL, Earthlink, Microsoft, etc, are bankrolling several VERY EXPENSIVE lawsuits against spammers. Listing them in MAPS or any other RBL list is just plain stupid. Everyone should be teaming up to fight the spammers, not taking little potshots (which is what listing AOL in an RBL really is) here and there." Then, the gem of the evening: "I work at the abuse desk of an ISP, and I will tell you that AOL constantly spams our abuse address with complaints(half of which aren't for our network) to the tune of about 300 emails a day on average. Nevermind that they don't reply to any responses and a great deal of them are from AOL users that forward mail to themselves and then report themselves as spammers. I've also heard rumors that AOL sells email lists, but can't confirm. I wouldn't be surprised either way on this. I do know that they try to act like they are big into anti-spam when in reality they don't seem to be all that interested in actually running a decent abuse department."

March 24th, 2006, 7:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kayla Surpass Staff Joined in May 2003 Lives in Orlando 23,929 posts Gave thanks: 904 Thanked 769 times	One Year Later... I am happy to report that everyone has been very cooperative with the policy. Our AOL blacklisting issues have dropped dramatically and we have been able to focus on "real" blacklisting issues and improve response in our abuse/security division. Thank you to everyone for your insights during this process and most importantly for your support and understanding. __________________ Have you ever want to draw a windmill, and after that animate it? No problem!

January 9th, 2007, 9:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
kdanieli Registered User Comfy Contributor Joined in Nov 2006 Hosted on SH107 105 posts Gave thanks: 8 Thanked 0 times	Summary and current status should be at the TOP The summary of what the current policy toward AOL is should be at the top of this thread. Then you can transition to the backstory. The most important thing people need to know is "what are the rules now" with a brief "why." After that the long history is interesting support for the current rules. Don't start at the beginning, start at the end.

January 9th, 2007, 10:30 AM	#6 (permalink)
Kayla Surpass Staff Joined in May 2003 Lives in Orlando 23,929 posts Gave thanks: 904 Thanked 769 times	Thanks for your input. __________________ Have you ever want to draw a windmill, and after that animate it? No problem!

March 8th, 2005, 5:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
Kayla Surpass Staff Joined in May 2003 Lives in Orlando 23,929 posts Gave thanks: 904 Thanked 769 times	This announcement below was made when we came to a decision: We have found there actually is a way to prevent users on each server from forwarding mail to AOL servers. This will knock out the false spam reporting. However, it is going to interrupt the mail habits of a percentage of our users, but this is really getting out of control. We have hundreds upon hundreds of emails forwarded to us that are of no use. Only a few in between are actually real spam reports from non-customers. In these reports we can clearly see which Surpass customers are reporting spam from other networks that flow into our servers, which in turn puts strikes against our servers. Each strike gets a Surpass IP address closer to being temporarily or sometimes permanently blocked by AOL. Unfortunately most customers have ignored our emails and continue to forward their email, which continually puts blocks on our servers. Some of them must not have a need to email AOL users from their personal domain account, but other customers on the servers do. And we have a lot of complaints. Our number #1 abuse department request is "I can't send email to AOL" and now this will slowly diminish. With the multitude of complaints against our servers due to our customer's forwarding, it was not going to be possible if that continued.

January 9th, 2007, 11:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
Sentinel Surpass Fan On a golden path... Joined in Mar 2006 Hosted on SH100 420 posts Gave thanks: 59 Thanked 17 times	That's why I tell everyone I know to just delete spam. Don't forward it, don't bounce it, just dump it. I think that's the best way to deal with spam. Am I wrong? I mean it seems as though the AOL is problem is being caused by people sending spam that appears as though it originates from AOL to the abuse department at AOL. This accomplishes nothing and creates the above problem. If I am understanding it correctly. If these users would just delete the spam and move on the problem would not occur. Am I right?

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