Web based programming god has entered the room - Page 3

H · February 14th, 2008, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gamer.Saga

I think you do know me. I'm a mod at VPL. =3 I think I've seen you there.

The // is the trigger for php comments. PHP ignores them, so comments don't take up server processes. The comments are total gibberish. PHP OOP looks like this:

Code:

<?php
class BlowFish {
	public function BlowEcho()
	{
		return 'This is pointless';
	}
}
$var = new BlowFish();
echo $var->BlowEcho();
?>

I <3 php, it's like the most awesome scripting language in the world. I really like the php GTK for making actual applications. I know a little bit about some real programming languages, but none of them really work out too well with web content generation like php does.

Fascinating stuff!

I just wish PHP's OO was as good as the OO in JS2/AS3/ECMA4. Then it wouldn't be the worst OO language in the universe.

Gamer.Saga · February 14th, 2008, 7:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H

Fascinating stuff!

I just wish PHP's OO was as good as the OO in JS2/AS3/ECMA4. Then it wouldn't be the worst OO language in the universe.

What are you talking about?!?! PHP's OO is awesome for what it is. PHP is really only meant to parse an output of text data, unless you get into PHP GTK. It's easy to read, learn, and comprehend. JS2 OO is painful for my brain.... AS3.... I deplore AS3 (don't know about AS3 yet) because of flash CS3's new licensing tool. It feels like an invasion of privacy. ECMA4...... never really took the time to get that deep into web development. xD

geeky · February 14th, 2008, 7:26 PM

Ew, we're hosted on the same server. Don't use my resources!

H · February 14th, 2008, 8:05 PM

PHP is really only meant to parse an output of text data? Right... I suppose those other function libraries are there for kicks.

Anyways, PHP is fine for procedural web scripting, but the OO has to become more robust. And it is wanted. It's why you see Python (Django) and Ruby (Rails and Merb) being so popular -- not to mention they're both more than just web scripting languages.

I actually grouped JavaScript 2, ActionScript 3 and ECMAScript 4 together because JS2 and AS3 are derived from ECMA4. I haven't actually seen JS2 implemented anywhere (and Microsoft is apparently fighting against it), but AS3 is implemented in Flash CS3 and Flex 2 (soon Flex 3 and AIR too).

I'd honestly recommend exploring the other tools out there more. PHP is still widely popular and relatively well paying, but there's other choices out there which could change your perspective. It may not, you may find PHP to still be your #1.

Gamer.Saga · February 15th, 2008, 6:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H

PHP is really only meant to parse an output of text data? Right... I suppose those other function libraries are there for kicks.

Anyways, PHP is fine for procedural web scripting, but the OO has to become more robust. And it is wanted. It's why you see Python (Django) and Ruby (Rails and Merb) being so popular -- not to mention they're both more than just web scripting languages.

I actually grouped JavaScript 2, ActionScript 3 and ECMAScript 4 together because JS2 and AS3 are derived from ECMA4. I haven't actually seen JS2 implemented anywhere (and Microsoft is apparently fighting against it), but AS3 is implemented in Flash CS3 and Flex 2 (soon Flex 3 and AIR too).

I'd honestly recommend exploring the other tools out there more. PHP is still widely popular and relatively well paying, but there's other choices out there which could change your perspective. It may not, you may find PHP to still be your #1.

I think those other function libraries were just made for kicks, or by bored people just wanting to extend the limit of php. The socket functions are pretty nice for making a simple xml server for a online flash game.

I don't have the time to explore what's out there. Most of what I generally do end up exploring is crap. A prime example is put out by microsoft.... silverlight. PHP is the prime option for web output. Nothing really matches it. Javascript, Java, anything based off ECMAscript is generally client side, thus, not optimal for anything except making a nice interface/furthering the activities available on web pages.

I explore tools quite regularly..... I'll be all for the first alternative tool for making flash AS3 applications. I don't just limit my self to web based programming either. I enjoy taking time and learning more, but php in combination with xhtml + css is my favorite mix. I like web based programming.

Quote:

Originally Posted by geeky

Ew, we're hosted on the same server. Don't use my resources!

I have nothing but lulz. *shares the resources honorably*

H · February 15th, 2008, 7:45 PM

Quote:

I don't have the time to explore what's out there.

Quote:

I explore tools quite regularly.....

Hehe.

I just want to re-iterate that I'm not saying PHP is bad... I just think it has crappy OO, which is important to me. Might not be to you, which is fine. You might think differently about it if you do branch into AS3 though -- it'll burn you if you don't adapt. I think your poor success rate with exploring other things, like Silverlight is just the lack of time you do give it. Behind the nasties implied by it being Microsoft, it's actually shaping up into something attractive -- especially Silverlight 2.0.

And as much as JavaScript and Flash (I won't include Java because it's extremely valuable on the serverside through servlets) are clientside only, they're still far more important than whatever you program your controller with. User interface and interaction are easily the most important part of an application. It might have a wicked backend, but if it sucks to use... well, the user will say it sucks. I know you didn't down the importance of UI, I just felt it a nice opportunity to say it.

**Jared** · February 15th, 2008, 8:35 PM

I thought this was Mark's thread...

Gamer.Saga · February 15th, 2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H

Hehe.

I just want to re-iterate that I'm not saying PHP is bad... I just think it has crappy OO, which is important to me. Might not be to you, which is fine. You might think differently about it if you do branch into AS3 though -- it'll burn you if you don't adapt. I think your poor success rate with exploring other things, like Silverlight is just the lack of time you do give it. Behind the nasties implied by it being Microsoft, it's actually shaping up into something attractive -- especially Silverlight 2.0.

And as much as JavaScript and Flash (I won't include Java because it's extremely valuable on the serverside through servlets) are clientside only, they're still far more important than whatever you program your controller with. User interface and interaction are easily the most important part of an application. It might have a wicked backend, but if it sucks to use... well, the user will say it sucks. I know you didn't down the importance of UI, I just felt it a nice opportunity to say it.

lulz, I truly don't have time, yet I play with things regularly. Anyways, I get what you're saying. Though, silverlight, I don't think it'll truly go to far. The only thing that it'll have going for it is microsoft will shove it down our throats by including it in windows with IE. IE is not up to w3 standards and microsoft is making a vector application language plugin ma-bobber alternative to flash?! WTF?! It's not just that microsoft will force feed it to us, but the fact that the tools for it aren't freely accessible. It's a gimmick to make money. The fact you can make something with silverlight without anything accept a text editor is nice, but you can't do but so much in a text editor with it. It contradicts the entire "free exchange of information" idea that the digital super highway was invented for.

There are very few 3rd party tools for flash AS2 and even fewer for flash AS3. Honestly AS3, I have nothing against it. I quite enjoy the idea of being able to have highly powerful APIs at my fingertips, but it's the official tool for creation itself that I resent. FNPLicensingServer.exe or w/e, I hate it. I don't trust it. I don't want it. I buy Flash CS3, just to get this licensing server installed? It wastes precious computer processes in which my computer could be doing something productive. I don't trust it. How do we know what information it's sending and receiving? You have a hard time using a packet sniffer on it and attaching a kernel debugger on it. You have to do backflips to monitor it's true intent. Emulating it just to remove it ain't enough. Emulating it still wastes that 1kb of memory.

Java is awesome. Cross-platform and even embeddable in a web pages and the plugin for it is sooooo highly accessible.

H · February 16th, 2008, 12:16 AM

I'm really only replying to correct, what I believe are some false things in your statements.

1. Microsoft has a lot of free development tools. Every Visual Studio product now has an Express edition which is available completely at no cost. The SDK is free too. You can definitely start developing Silverlight apps at no cost. My only beef is it's extremely difficult to develop for Silverlight on Mac right now.

2. Silverlight is not necessarily a Flash competitor. I'd say it's more aimed at Flex. It's purpose is served at being a media, rich interface and application platform.

3. Umm. Flash CS3 isn't the only AS3 creation tool. Hell, I'd say it's second to Flex Builder. I know people who code AS3 in VI and then use the Flex SDK to compile a SWF.

I'm not sure what the FNPLicensingServer is... Google didn't help and I can't seem to find it on my machine. Never had it trigger LittleSnitch or anything. Perhaps it's a Windows thing... but honestly, are you really needing the memory and CPU cycles it's using?

February 14th, 2008, 7:26 PM	#21 (permalink)
geeky Honey Pot Seasoned Poster Joined in Feb 2008 Lives in Hawai'i Hosted on pass80, sh134 32 posts Gave thanks: 8 Thanked 7 times	Ew, we're hosted on the same server. Don't use my resources! __________________ pass80 & sh134 \| geeky.nu & heyhoneypot.org \| bronze & power

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February 14th, 2008, 8:05 PM	#22 (permalink)
H after g, before i Resident. Joined in Jul 2004 Lives in N,BC,CA 8,033 posts Gave thanks: 48 Thanked 129 times	PHP is really only meant to parse an output of text data? Right... I suppose those other function libraries are there for kicks. Anyways, PHP is fine for procedural web scripting, but the OO has to become more robust. And it is wanted. It's why you see Python (Django) and Ruby (Rails and Merb) being so popular -- not to mention they're both more than just web scripting languages. I actually grouped JavaScript 2, ActionScript 3 and ECMAScript 4 together because JS2 and AS3 are derived from ECMA4. I haven't actually seen JS2 implemented anywhere (and Microsoft is apparently fighting against it), but AS3 is implemented in Flash CS3 and Flex 2 (soon Flex 3 and AIR too). I'd honestly recommend exploring the other tools out there more. PHP is still widely popular and relatively well paying, but there's other choices out there which could change your perspective. It may not, you may find PHP to still be your #1.

February 15th, 2008, 8:35 PM	#25 (permalink)
Jared #include "detours.h" Comfy Contributor Joined in Jul 2007 Lives in the datacenter Hosted on kitty.beyondcontrol.org 144 posts Gave thanks: 1 Thanked 26 times	I thought this was Mark's thread...

February 16th, 2008, 12:16 AM	#27 (permalink)
H after g, before i Resident. Joined in Jul 2004 Lives in N,BC,CA 8,033 posts Gave thanks: 48 Thanked 129 times	I'm really only replying to correct, what I believe are some false things in your statements. 1. Microsoft has a lot of free development tools. Every Visual Studio product now has an Express edition which is available completely at no cost. The SDK is free too. You can definitely start developing Silverlight apps at no cost. My only beef is it's extremely difficult to develop for Silverlight on Mac right now. 2. Silverlight is not necessarily a Flash competitor. I'd say it's more aimed at Flex. It's purpose is served at being a media, rich interface and application platform. 3. Umm. Flash CS3 isn't the only AS3 creation tool. Hell, I'd say it's second to Flex Builder. I know people who code AS3 in VI and then use the Flex SDK to compile a SWF. I'm not sure what the FNPLicensingServer is... Google didn't help and I can't seem to find it on my machine. Never had it trigger LittleSnitch or anything. Perhaps it's a Windows thing... but honestly, are you really needing the memory and CPU cycles it's using?

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